Diaz-Balart vs Rangel on Cuba Via NY Transfer News * All the News That Doesn't Fit [Compared with the other news of the day, especially from the Middle East, this little item is almost comic relief. Particularly enjoyable is Charles Rangel's adroit handling of Diaz-Balart [who does a not-half-bad, if cynical, imitation of a completely unhinged lunatic hunting for terrorist commies under his bed. Almost, but not quite, funny. UPPER CASE COMMENTS THROUGHOUT BY NY Transfer] source - JosePertierra@aol.com CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER Lincoln Diaz-Balart and Charles Rangel Discuss U.S.-Cuba Policy; Aired March 31, 2002 - 12:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. CANDY CROWLEY, CNN ANCHOR: It's noon in Washington; 11:00 a.m. in Crawford, Texas; 7:00 p.m. at the Vatican; and 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks for joining us for Late Edition. Wolf is away this week. I'm Candy Crowley. . . . CROWLEY: Welcome back. We'll debate U.S. policy toward Cuba in just a moment, but first here's Fredricka Whitfield with a news alert. (NEWSBREAK) CROWLEY: If the Bush administration gives the green light, former President Jimmy Carter will travel to Cuba at the invitation of Fidel Castro. A visit by Carter would make him the highest ranking U.S. official to visit Cuba since America imposed an embargo against that communist island 40 years ago. The former president's impending visit is renewing debate over U.S.-Cuba policy. Joining us now are two members of Congress on opposite sides of this debate. In Miami is Florida Republican Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Ballart, and in New York, Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel. Congressmen, welcome to Late Edition. Thank you so much for joining us, particularly on this day. REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Happy Easter, Candy. CROWLEY: Happy Easter to you both. Congressman Diaz-Ballart, let me just start with you and say, after 40 years, isn't it about time to talk about lifting sanctions? REP. LINCOLN DIAZ-BALART (R), FLORIDA: No. It's about time that the international community take seriously a dictatorship that makes known its intention not to permit any sort of democratic opening. Just weeks ago, when President Fox was in Cuba, perhaps the most respected dissident who's not in prison, Marta Beatriz Roque, after meeting with President Fox, was stripped searched, harassed, her house was ransacked and her furniture destroyed. What is the international community going to do? [ACTUALLY, THEY JUST SPRAYED HER HOUSE FOR MOSQUITOS...] This month, the European Union and Switzerland imposed a freeze on the funds of Mr. Mugabe because of a flawed -- he held a flawed election in Zimbabwe. Mr. Castro has refused to hold any election in 43 years. At least we have a policy saying that until he liberates political prisoners and holds elections, there's going to be no normalization. What is the international community going to do? CROWLEY: Well, let me just take a pause right here and let you hear what former President Jimmy Carter said recently on the subject of lifting sanctions. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... not to punish the Cuban people themselves by imposing an embargo on them which makes Castro seem to be a hero because he's defending his own people against the abusive Americans. (END VIDEO CLIP) CROWLEY: So, Congressman Rangel, the point being there that basically what we have done is sort of make the U.S. look bad over 40 years of sanctions, depriving the Cuban people, and making Castro look good. You think it's time to go ahead and lift this embargo. RANGEL: I think that Lincoln has deep-seated personal and political beliefs, and I respect him for it, but the embargo and the isolation of Cuba is against our national policy. The whole idea that a former president or any American citizen has to get permission to travel, especially to the Caribbean, is absolutely ridiculous. But not having a normal trade and commercial relationship is insulting to Americans to believe that they are fearful that Americans are going to succumb to Communism. That's the greatest thing that we got, our travelers, our merchants, to sell our American way of life. We believe that it's going to work in China. We believe that it's going to work in North Korea and Vietnam. We believe that it's working in Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. But I know one thing, Candy, this has nothing to do with common sense and reason. The real reasons why we don't have normalization, whether it's a Republican president or a Democratic president, is the Electoral College in Florida and a handful of very political people who can make the difference, as they did in last presidential election. CROWLEY: Well, Congressman Rangel, I mean, this isn't the only president that has been opposed to lifting sanctions again Cuba, long before Florida become sort of a flash political word, correct? RANGEL: I said Democrat and Republican. But no, no, no, no. It's always been, with the exception of the time they had the Soviet missiles there where the whole country was opposed to it, but, no, there is no former secretary of state or assistant secretary of state that doesn't condemn this policy. And yet, under Democratic presidents, they were fearful that if they got this group antagonized in Florida, that they could lose the election there. And let me tell you this, that Al Gore, with his bumbling, did loss the election there. CROWLEY: Congressman Diaz-Balart, let me pull you in here. DIAZ-BALART: It's interesting... CROWLEY: Go ahead. DIAZ-BALART: Well, I think it's interesting that my colleague talks about the Electoral College as the reason why we have a policy of solidarity with the Cuban people. I don't think it's related to the electoral college, that the only terrorist state that is in this hemisphere is the Castro totalitarian state. It's not related to the Electoral College that that terrorist state has had over 15 spies, captured and convicted in the last two years in the United States, including a spy who, just days ago -- she was a very high-ranking spies within the Defense intelligence agency in Washington and she pled guilty and is, by the way, offering very good cooperation and talking about many other spies that exist here in the United States from the Castro intelligence services. So on the terrorist state, just last week the State Department said that the Cuban regime has a biological weapons component that it has shared with other anti-American terrorist states, and it's 90 miles away. It has spies convicted by the dozens. [AND KILLER SHARKS! DON'T FORGET THEIR KILLER SHARKS, LINCOLN!] And of course, our opponents are saying that it's because of the Electoral College that there's a concern with a terrorist state in Cuba? The reality of the matter is that, in addition to it being in solidarity with the Cuban people, it's in the national interest of the United States for there to be a Democratic transition in Cuba. And that's why we say we don't want the embargo. What we want is -- what we want is liberation, the liberation of all political prisoners and the scheduling of free elections. And then we'll be the first ones calling for the end of embargo. Why don't we have our colleague, Charlie Rangel, asking for the liberation of all political prisoners and the scheduling of free elections, or, like in the case of Zimbabwe, can you join me, Charlie, in calling for Castro's assets to be frozen in Switzerland and in London? I think that would be a good step. RANGEL: Two hundred members of Congress disagree with you. They believe that we should travel to Cuba. Over a majority of the House and Senate has voted to allow us to sell food to Cuba. In this hemisphere, we have Canada, Mexico, South American countries and the Caribbean countries all wanting to normalize relationship with Cuba. And so, it's a very lonely struggle that you're fighting now. I would say this, that we should demand democracy in Cuba, the same way we demand to get it in China, that we should really have our business people -- the U.S. Chamber of Commerce wants to do business there. Two hundred churches and social agencies want to go there. And we should not deny food and medicine to the people in Cuba. And these people love us. Even though we have a problem with Castro, we don't have a problem with the Cuban people. And best way to bring democracy is to talk with people. But the whole idea that a former president has to get permission to visit a small island in the Caribbean really shows how ridiculous the policy is. CROWLEY: Congressman Diaz-Balart, let me just see if I can get you -- I just want to focus on a couple of things that Congressman Rangel has brought up, and that is, you know, Americans can go to North Korea, they can go to Iran, and they can't go to Cuba. And it does seem a little out of whack. Can you explain to me why that seems OK to you? DIAZ-BALART: Well, we have something called geography and something called history and something called differences. The reality of the matter is that there is a national interest in the United States for there to be a democratic transition in a terrorist state that is 90 miles away. And we don't think that it is appropriate to give billions of dollars to that regime from the United States, until there is a liberation of political prisoner and a scheduling of elections. Because it's in our national interest for Cuba to be a friendly democracy and not a totalitarian terrorist state. [CUBA HAS ELECTIONS, AND THERE ARE EVEN TWO BOOKS AVAILABLE ABOUT THEM IN *ENGLISH* BUT AN ELECTION ISN'T AN ELECTION UNLESS DIAZ-BALART AND DIM-SON DUBYA SAY IT'S AN ELECTION. AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT KIND OF ELECTIONS THEY LIKE. THE ONES THEY CAN BUY.] So that's why there are differences in the world. There's differences in geography and history and sociology, et cetera. The only region that has a requirement in its international law -- it's inter-American law that says that only representative democracy is legitimate in this hemisphere. So for legal reasons, for national security reasons, for reasons of solidarity with the Cuban people, we have a different policy with regard to a state that is terrorist and that's totalitarian and that's anti-American 90 miles away. No matter how much you want to whitewash this issue, the reality of the matter is the only terrorist state that has had over 15 spies captured and convicted in this country, including a very high ranking spy at the Defense Intelligence Agency, who is now talking and talking about other spies who have not been captured and soon will be, is the Cuban regime. The reality of the matter is that, while the world condemns the dictatorship in Zimbabwe for holding a flawed election, and now we see the European Union freezing the assets of the dictator, Mr. Mugabe, why here, in the case of a 43-year-old dictatorship that has not had any flawed election, it has had no elections, is there a call for the end of all sanctions and the giving of funds? The reality is, we should end the double standard and say the same standard we have -- I remember when my colleague Mr. Rangel called for sanctions against the Haitian dictatorship. I joined him. I remember when he called for military action in the case of Haiti. I didn't go that far, but I always supported the sanctions. And yet in the case of Cuba, a dictatorship not of three years but of 43 years, and he and others are seeking an end to all sanctions. And so, I'm saying lets be consistent. CROWLEY: Congressman Rangel... DIAZ-BALART: Let's not have double standards. CROWLEY: Congressman Rangel... RANGEL: There's just one... CROWLEY: ... let me just... RANGEL: OK. CROWLEY: ... I just want to -- go ahead and make that point, but then I want you to answer this question. RANGEL: I was just saying to Lincoln, not one country, not in the Caribbean, not in Central or South America or Mexico, not one country in the hemisphere, or the whole world for that matter, agrees with anything that have said. And so, why should America have an isolated view merely because of the political concerns we have in Florida? I mean, we cannot be that stupid that the whole world disagrees with us. DIAZ-BALART: No, Charlie, it's a difference -- look, the reality of the matter is that, in the case of Cuba, in the 19th century, after the Cubans had fought for almost 100 years against European colonialism, it was only the United States that stood with Cuba and helped through the Congress of the United States... RANGEL: Name the country that agrees... DIAZ-BALART: No, what I'm trying to say is... RANGEL: ... name the country, Lincoln, that agrees with you. I mean, you're saying that it's a terrorist country... DIAZ-BALART: Charlie, what I'm trying to say is... RANGEL: ... they threaten our national... DIAZ-BALART: ... what I'm trying to say is they... RANGEL: Do they threaten our national security? DIAZ-BALART: What I'm trying to say Charlie... RANGEL: I mean, we're the leader of the whole world, and you're asking... DIAZ-BALART: The ethical and moral leader of the world, yes... RANGEL: ... and you're telling me... DIAZ-BALART: What I'm trying to say, Charlie, if I may, is that there is an historic, as well as geographic, very close relationship between the people of the United States and the people of Cuba. And when you're talking about the fact... RANGEL: What's that got to do with the president going to Cuba? DIAZ-BALART: No, no, Charlie, Charlie, please. You're beginning to interrupt too much. I don't interrupt you. What I'm trying to say is that historic closeness is also seen when we say with our policy, until there is liberation of all political prisoners and people are not imprisoned because of their beliefs in Cuba, until there is a scheduling of re-elections, we are going to maintain our policy. RANGEL: OK, good. DIAZ-BALART: And guess what? If the rest of the world doesn't agree, we're proud of our policy. And it's... RANGEL: OK, very good. DIAZ-BALART: ... going to be very important in a transition in Cuba. And then... CROWLEY: OK, gentlemen, I have to... RANGEL: But you didn't name one country, you know that, Lincoln. CROWLEY: I'm sorry, I've got to interrupt the two of you here. I'm so sorry. We have run out of time. You got to love a debate where I don't have to ask a single question. (LAUGHTER) Thank you very much. DIAZ-BALART: Happy Easter. CROWLEY: Happy Easter to you all. Florida Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Balart, Congressman Charlie Rangel, thank you so much. Happy Easter to you both. RANGEL: Happy Easter. ================================================================= NY Transfer News Collective * A Service of Blythe Systems Since 1985 - Information for the Rest of Us 339 Lafayette St., New York, NY 10012 http://www.blythe.org e-mail: nyt@blythe.org ================================================================= nytmed-04.02.02-15:54:11-779